🌎 Welcome back to the CleanTechies PodLetter, Founder edition.
We tried to devise a better joke, but Hot Rocks was the best cold open we could come up with.
Today, we are talking to Arvin Ganesan of Fourth Power
You may have heard of Fourth Power before but have you heard Arvin’s story of going from the EPA, to Apple, to Fourth Power, and what he thinks are the keys to their success?
I don’t think so. There is a great episode with Volts that covers Fourth Power’s technology in depth. If you have not heard it, I’d highly recommend it (if you like science, that is).
In today’s conversation, we had a chance to unpack…
How their thermal battery works (high level)
How insanely efficient their tech is
How they maintain the company culture as they grow
Why their model is desirable to utilities
His mentors and the importance of mentorship broadly
📺 Watch on YouTube | 🍎 Apple Podcasts | 🎧 Spotify | 🗣️ Join the Slack Channel
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The Guest: Arvin Ganesan
After graduating from the University of Massachusetts Amherst, Arvin spent a few years at Calvert Research before pursuing his master's at George Washington University.
He’d then land in the EPA during the Obama administration, where they worked on groundbreaking projects, including efforts to cap carbon emissions. It was during this time he really got to know the landscape of of policy and where he was mentored by Lisa Jackson.
Eventually, he’d end up following Lisa to Apple, where he led global energy procurement policy for them (among other things).
This combination of finance, policy, and corporate sustainability initiatives prepared him well for the role he’d eventually be offered with Fourth Power.
When approached, he was initially skeptical about making such a drastic change, but after seeing what the technology could do and learning that Founder Asegun Henry was a family man, he was ready to make the leap.
Today, he’s the CEO of Fourth Power.
The Company: Fourth Power
One Liner: Making Renewables + Storage Energy cheaper than gas power.
Founded by Dr. Asegun Henry through his work at MIT, Fourth Power is now making total dependence on renewable energy a reality, without it raising energy prices. They are piloting their bench-scale technology that allows them to store energy generated by renewables, until needed later…much later.
They don’t do this with batteries but rather with Thermal Energy…aka Hot Rocks.
Electricity heats a special metal until it’s so hot that the heat transfers (following the laws of thermo-dynamics) to the rocks. When they need the energy they can distribute the enery at a moment’s notice (which BTW, is faster than the current conventional solution of gas peeker plants).
The best part of all this is, their model fits perfectly with the way utilities make money.
Being regulated, a utility can only make money on the CapEx spend and not the OpEx. For thos unfamiliar, Capital Expenditure is the money used to build the plant, and Operating Expenditure is the cost of operating.
Utilities make a fixed amount above their CapEx. So, for them, all the margin is in the build out of hardware / energy generation. A gas plant has decently high CapEx, but it also has a lot of operating expense—making it an undesireable product for the utilities to invest in.
Fourth Power’s systems are high CapEx, but have ultra-low OpEx. It’s a perfect fit.
In the coming years, with the proliferation of Fourth Power’s technology, we will see massive transformation of the grid to renewables.
It’s no wonder funds like Bill Gates’ backed Breakthrough Energy Ventures have invested in their $19m Series A funding round.
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📝 Show Notes:
Topics
2:37 Why Cheap and Accessible Energy Storage Matters
17:30 Fourth Power's Utility-Scale Thermal Battery
21:58 Fast and Efficient Energy Storage and Discharge
27:10 Building Fourth Power
32:04 The Power of People
37:24 Maintaining Culture with Growth
42:21 Opportunities in the Utility Market
47:04 Startup Opportunities in Agriculture Decarbonization
49:01 The Importance of Mentorship
52:19 Takeaways
Links
This podcast is NOT investment advice. Do your homework and due diligence before investing in anything discussed on this podcast.
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🙏🏽 Thanks for tuning in, and see y’all next episode!
#181 Hot Rocks, From EPA to Apple, Paths to Commercialization, The CapEx > OpEx Model, & More w/ Arvin Ganesan (Fourth Power)